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This journal has been edited to remove everything but the links and explanations.  The hatred on this site is getting out of hand, and I do not want to think that I might have had something to do with that.

Oh, what a wonderful place archive.org is.  The Wayback Machine can be an inexhaustible source of entertainment.

Looky what I found - MY BAD on this Submission Agreement, WORRY NOT! by $spyed, on Nov 06, 2000, in Devious News

You should read it.  It's a riot. (This is here only because it struck me as funny and ironic, not because it "proves" anything)

lightstream - this is, I suppose, a fair explanation of why the agreement got there, but it still doesn't change the fact that the agreement was written in terms that left DA with the ability to sell artist's work to third parties for modification and commercial usage without any compensation or credit given to the artist. This may be a standard practice in the music business, I don't know, but the tone and intention of that original agreement makes me worry about who or what corporate entity is behind (owns) this site and what their ultimate intentions are.

spyed - lightstream: it's not a conspiracy... the "corporate entity" is like, me, or something. I incorrectly instructed a lawyer, by not properly informing him to split the agreements in to two different agreements.

Now, just for fun (as in mild amusement - this post is here for entertainment purposes only), let's compare a few :spyed:isms, from then and now, from that particular article and a few other places.

now: (Aug. 1, 2005) "°jark and I have worked together on deviantART from day 1. A little bit after the first year, we were joined by $mccann who created the Sonique MP3 player back in 1998."
then: (Jan. 21, 2001) "I really want to apologize to the entire community, to Jark and to Matteo for this submission agreement situation."

now: (Aug. 1, 2005) "That is how much I believe in this community. I have dedicated my life to it."
then: (Nov. 6, 2000) "I threw the agreement in Jark's direction and then disappeared for the weekend and left the guys to deal with all the crazyness that was spawned as a result of the agreement."

now: (Aug. 1, 2005) "I was the first person to work on deviantART full time in 2002..."
then: (Feb. 17, 2002) attila said, "Not only do I work on deviantART.com full-time, but I am also a full-time college student." and spyed said, "I run two companies besides helping run deviantART."
then: (June 9, 2002) "Our dreams as staff are to work on deviantART full time, my task is to make that possible..." - news.deviantart.com/article/76…

now: (Aug. 1, 2005) "I personally hand built and "installed" deviantART's first 35 servers."  
then: (Feb. 17, 2002) "My main efforts on deviantART have to do with a new venture called DA Prints which I'm running point on. I also help with the implementation of new ideas and encourage planning for the future, to combat the negative effects of rapid growth which we are seeing in our wonderful community. Basically I focus a lot on making sure make sure we scale in a healthy manner. I deal with our lawyers, writing up contracts, accounting, our corporate responsibilities and odds and ends here and there where necessary."

now:  (Aug. 1, 2005) "In the early days, deviantART.com was running just fine without any revenue, because $mccann was sending $gazillion checks out of his pocket every month to pay for the server costs."
then: (Oct. 8, 2000) matteo said "Jark will be adding banner ads to DeviantArt soon and I want to do this news post in order to explain what this means. It's simple, we need to pay for our hosting, marketing, etc so that this site can remian (sic) up." - web.archive.org/web/2000100905…

now: "As costs got steeper, along came the subscription and print programs, which were embraced with open arms by the community."
then: news.deviantart.com/article/60…

now: (Aug. 1, 2005) "The other two co-founders..."
then: (Aug. 17, 2000) - web.archive.org/web/2000081707… - the Contact page, featuring only jark and matteo
then: (March 31, 2001) - web.archive.org/web/2001033102… - the Contact page again, with jark, matteo, arc, MikeyLove, tack and attila and listing their functions and titles - jark and matteo are named as co-founders, and spyed isn't named at all.
then: (Nov. 8, 2001) - web.archive.org/web/2001120419… - jark and matteo as co-founders - other staff listed are: arc, tack, attila, dj-designs, jsenn, and MikeyLove.  
then: (June 9, 2002) - news.deviantart.com/article/76…
matteo (Matt Stephens): Senior Vice President, deviantART Inc., Co-Founder
jark (Scott Jarkoff): President, deviantART Inc., Co-Founder
spyed (Angelo Sotira): CEO, deviantART Inc.

Through all this time, though, spyed did have a $ in front of his name, and he did post news... at least, according to this web.archive.org/web/2001033102… he did.  Now, only two of those articles survive in the belly of the Wayback Machine - this one web.archive.org/web/2001041311… and this one web.archive.org/web/2001041311… .

news.deviantart.com/browse/fro…
news.dmusic.com/browse/7460 - second article from the bottom.

You'll see something else there too.  A news article by matteo - news.dmusic.com/article/2930 - which you will also see here - news.deviantart.com/article/30… very, very closely - identical news posts made at the exact same moment, that recieved the exact same comments from the exact same people.

DMusic mirrored deviantART's news posts, at least at the beginning.  It stands to reason that deviantART did the same with DMusic, at least after a fashion.  Those articles appeared in spyed's activity list on his userpage, but they never appeared on the front page of deviantART.

My theory? (Theory only - not fact.  From this point on, everything you read is purely conjecture.)  Yes, spyed had a $ in front of his name from the very beginning, but it wasn't from deviantART - spyed.dmusic.net/

Have you ever wondered how it is that spyed and jark managed to join deviantART two weeks before it existed?

From their DMusic userpages:

jark
Type: DMember
Member Since: Jul 15, 2000

spyed
Type: Admin
Member Since: Jul 15, 2000

Another deviantPuzzle solved.  That's the day they joined DMusic.  jark and spyed's "Member Since" dates on deviantART are coming from DMusic's database.  If that kind of member information is being shared, then why wouldn't their symbols?

Oh, and check out jark's last post on his DMusic userpage - jark.dmusic.net/ - made some much needed adjustments to the HTML here at deviantART...  Here at deviantART?  In a post on DMusic? Crossposting much?  And if the posts crossed over, then why wouldn't the symbols?

No, spyed didn't co-found deviantART.  spyed founded DMusic.  It wasn't until DMusic didn't perform the way spyed wanted it to that his ever-present $ (from DMusic) suddenly came to mean that he'd been one of deviantART's founding fathers.

Latest Update

It appears that devDeepThroat might have decided to feed us some more of that paper trail Englebert was talking about - probingthetruth.blogspot.com/2…

This one doesn't seem to have come from Englebert, though.
Add a Comment:
 
:iconhightillidie:
hightillidie Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2005  Hobbyist General Artist
U rocks dude...ette ! :giggle:

this has been most fun to read.
Reply
:iconsankatze:
sankatze Featured By Owner Aug 20, 2005
A very thorough piece of research which seems to confirm a lot of my gut assumptions. Thanks for putting in the effort!
Reply
:iconbrava:
Brava Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2005  Hobbyist Photographer
Awesome work, really, and interesting to read.
Reply
:iconwatermonster:
watermonster Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2005
Marvellous research!
Reply
:iconmckaela-chan:
McKaela-chan Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2005
Isn't "I believe in yesterday" a song...? Yeah... I used to listen to LeAnn Rhimes a lot, and she sings it...

"Yesterday...
All my troubles seemed so far away...
Now it looks as though they’re here to stay...

Oh I believe in yesterday...

Suddenly...
I’m not half the girl I used to be...
There’s a shadow hangin’ over me...

Oh, yesterday came suddenly...

Why he had to go...
I don’t know...
He wouldn’t say...
I said something wrong...
Now I long for yesterday...

Why he had to go...
I don’t know...
He wouldn’t say...
I said... I must’ve said something wrong...
Now I long for yesterday...

Yesterday...
Life was such an easy game to play...
Now I need a place to hide away...

Oh I believe in yesterday...

I believe in yersterday...

I believe... in yesterday..."

Yeah... I got carried away... But I like that song... x.@;;;

As for Jark... and all this shit... I don't really care to get further involved... When the truth comes out, then I'll be happy... Until then... I'll bitch and gripe about it, but try not to hit the submit button on it too often...
Reply
:iconbrihana25:
brihana25 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2005
Actually, the song is called Yesterday, and The Beatles wrote it about 30 years before Leann Rhimes was born. :)
Reply
:iconmckaela-chan:
McKaela-chan Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2005
Yeah, but I meant... well, I knew that... It's just that I remember the LeAnn Rhimes version better... cuz it sounds better, to me at least... And I meant that the lyrics are from Yesterday, the lyrics are "I believe in yesterday"... Yeah... But don't you just love that song...? x.@;;;
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:iconaprilechidna:
AprilEchidna Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2005
:worship: That'a amazing. Way to reasearch.

Really interesting. Is it OK if I link here from my journal? ;)
Reply
:iconmountainhawk:
mountainhawk Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2005
You always did have an uncanny knack for uncovering facts and presenting them in a contextual fashion.....Bloody Brilliant I say....Bloody Brilliant!:thumbsup::D
Reply
:iconshivaoritiner:
ShivaOritiner Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2005
You rock. This is a great journal entry. You did a lot of hardwork and it paid off. I mean...we've got a serious Bill Clinton on our hands here. Rather than still trying to run with an overly shaky lie, he should just give up and admit that he's an @$$munch lying slimeball. HA!
Reply
:icontigerqueen:
tigerqueen Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2005  Professional General Artist
The problem with this is that you are bringing morality into it. Business, in general, is usually handled more through law than ethics. I agree with everything here in principle, except that it was a waste of time for you to gather all this info. The lawyers that are going to be handling this case don't give a crap about what a hundred million "angry members" of the site think.

The fact is, no matter how Spyed got there, he IS in charge. My opinion is that, in all likelihood, Spyed the only person who would handle lawyers and thusly everyone went "let's make Spyed do this." Not a good idea, as has been evidenced; whoever works with the lawyers has the high ground, because they understand the LAW as is it in REALITY, not as everyone thinks it should be from a moral standpoint.

Don't get me wrong; I commend your efforts. I don't have any fight with you. I don't think you're entirely wrong. It's just that us knowing a comparison of then and now really doesn't mean anything anymore. WE do not matter to the site, in this matter. The COMMUNITY is not going to solve this matter, a judge is going to, and all the pleading of the masses to put Jark back in charge is going to do very little to impress a judge.
Reply
:iconshinobubu:
Shinobubu Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2005
I say this to the follks in #thearmyofjarkness every day :| the community is disposable, we are just the free-assets that brings money to this site. all one can do is leave and never use DeviantArt. no amount of mobbing and petitioning can change the decision of the guy in charge, this isn't a democracy.
Reply
:icontigerqueen:
tigerqueen Featured By Owner Aug 11, 2005  Professional General Artist
The ironing (to me) part being that Jark himself told me ages ago that dA is not a democracy. I agree completely with you, all the bitching of the masses isn't going to do ANYTHING on this site. If they want to bloodywell protest, they can do it by not giving money to the site anymore.
Reply
:iconklmnumbers:
klmnumbers Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2005
My goodness, you are thorough. Nice to know we've got a livewire like you taking names. :-)
Reply
:icondarthmarlan:
darthmarlan Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
Fantastic read, and very interesting indeed too :)
Reply
:iconzlatty:
Zlatty Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Professional Photographer
wow wow wow wow !

you must have been a PI in your past life because you did one hell of a fine investigative work

well done !
more people should be aware of this :!:
Reply
:icondreamz13:
dreamz13 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
Very interesting stuff.
Reply
:iconanywien:
Anywien Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
^^ Good work, it was a great read :love:
Reply
:iconchiachrome:
chiachrome Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Hobbyist Photographer
you should work for the smoking gun :O_o: :worship:
Reply
:iconbellanouva:
bellanouva Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005   Traditional Artist
holy hell.....wow....DA HAS come along way......lol I see the irony only Too well... Thank you so much for linking to that piece, I've never seen DA in its infancy and well my god...it just shows you HOW much the co-founders have done in all that time.......:) I definately need to link this:) I think my friends will find it quite interesting:) awesome points btw!
Reply
:iconkolaboy:
kolaboy Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Professional Traditional Artist
"Do Britney and Christina Get Along? (oh yeah, that boy was 18 when he wrote that one...), Pimp War and Some Pimpin' Tunes, The Pop-Ups on DMusic, Be Part of the DMusic Team!"

No wonder he wears a mask.
Reply
:iconannikaastra:
AnnikaAstra Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Hobbyist Photographer
Impressive research :faint:
Reply
:icontskittie:
TSKittie Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
OMG, I love it. Not only was it amusing as hell but it's all true too and I wanted to say thanks for putting in the time and effort to find all those links and such! :D

[I'm also going to link this journal entry from my journal if you dont mind?]
Reply
:iconcageybutterfly:
CageyButterfly Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
:clap:

:):heart:
Reply
:iconmikeylove:
MikeyLove Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
[link]

I'm sorry if I came across as very angry, but this journal entry of yours is really bothering me.
Reply
:iconbrihana25:
brihana25 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
Don't apologize for being angry. You have every right in the world to feel what you feel without having to apologize for it.

And if my journal really bothers you, who I mention only a few times as having been a member of the staff way back when, can you imagine how what yours is doing to me, as many times as you use my name and point out how stupid I am?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And when I am proven wrong, I admit it. Ask =kidd if she remembers the conversation we had about civil disobedience. I will say to you now the exact same thing I said to her then:

I do not intentionally spread shit, though I'm willing to admit that from time to time I may do it inadvertently. If there's anything else I've said that you feel I'm wrong on, please, tell me exactly what it is so I can learn more about it. I was a reporter too, for a number of years. I do hold the truth in very high regard. So if I'm missing it somewhere, please, tell me where. I'm not so convinced of my own perfection that I'm not willing to admit I might have made a mistake. I'm human; it happens.

I am not privvy to the information that you are - I don't deny that. I am working from what's publicly available. Some of it does look bad, and some of it (like the line about leaving for the weekend) aren't intended to "prove" anything, but are included just because they struck me as funny. That would be why I giggled at them. I am sorry if it bothered you or angered you. That was not my intention.

I'll not comment on your journal, as that is your place to blow off steam, just as I've done here. I'll not complain about the fact that you called me out in public, because I've done pretty well the same thing to $spyed.

But I will say that I would have appreciated the chance to learn from you and/or defend myself in private, before you ripped me apart in public.
Reply
:iconmikeylove:
MikeyLove Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
Your journal bothering me has nothing to do with the fact that my name is mentioned. I can't see why it would. It's entirely because of your bashing of Angelo, which is entirely unwarranted. None of us know exactly what's going on right now, and the way you've chosen him as the bad guy and built your case around that is painfully obvious.

I think it's ironic that you would have appreciated a private vetting of your post when you denied Angelo that very same thing before mocking him in public. The fact that you provided links that contradict what you say is ignorant at best, deceptive at worst. Allowing everyone's words from the past to serve as your "facts" without giving Angelo the same courtesy is also wrong. You should be ashamed for what you've written here, and that so many are buying it hook, line & sinker..
Reply
:iconibelieveinsanta516:
ibelieveinsanta516 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
extremely enlightening


the more that light is thrown on the activities of $spyed, the more i wonder how we could have let him go on like this.

bah, humbug.
Reply
:iconlirale:
lirale Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Hobbyist Artist
Awesome! You're a great detective my dear! :hug: Seing a page of DeviantArt from 2000 showing Spyed with a $ had thrown a bit of confusion on my previous resolves. But now, with all the evidences shown here and the wonderful explanations, I'm relieved!

Thank you very much for such an amount of time spent diggin' some more parts of the truth! :w00t:
Reply
:iconphr3ak000000000:
phr3ak000000000 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
"Somebody done give hisself a promotion! :lmao:

this is awesome. what a write up, wonderful information, sickening, yet wonderful to know.

:hug:
Reply
:iconmearir:
Mearir Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005   Photographer
i just wanted to say in the biggest way possible: ROCK ON

Has this been forwarded to Spyed yet? hell, i want to myself! but its probably been done.

what a virtual kick-in-the-balls.
Reply
:iconnsfbr:
nsfbr Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
Thanks for the inspiration! Look what I found - the issue 1 copy of deviant mag in its about the mag/origins statement says:

The deviantART website and community were born out of a dream to open a new community site, unlike that ever seen before. DeskMod, Skinz.org, Customize.org, and the others did not service the community in the way that Scott Jarkoff and Matt Stephens envisioned. On August 7th, 2000 their dream was realized with the birth of deviantART, a new, fresh and excitingly innovative online art community.

Issue 2 has a nice little interview with Scott. No mention of Angelo at all.
Reply
:icononestar:
onestar Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
Excellent bit of research here.
I'm linking this journal to my updates for today.

Thank you. :)
Reply
:iconbookdiva:
bookdiva Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
The links are terrific, and you are wise...a sage and angel in disguise for the cause.
Reply
:iconbookdiva:
bookdiva Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
If I could fave a journal...this would be the one...it brought much needed smiles to my face.

The content is articulated with light and joy, illuminating your page.

:hug:
Reply
:iconryche:
ryche Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005   Digital Artist
that is crazy research....

though i dont think is any use.... w already know jark's right :D

yellow fever everyone...
Reply
:iconarkywarky:
ArkyWarky Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
good detective work....the most interesting i have read :)
Reply
:icon3pic:
3pic Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
From your staff unplugged link a quote from Jark's job: "Furthermore, I am in charge of ensuring the slow, gradual, transformation of all deviants from Humans to Aliens." I think this went rather fast the past few days :nod:
Reply
:icontbond007:
TBOND007 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
good work.
Reply
:iconfinchygurl99:
FinchyGurl99 Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
:clap:

You certainly know how to research! :D
Reply
:iconmatthewedwardcornish:
matthewedwardcornish Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Hobbyist Photographer
:faint:

Good effort :hug: Thank you.
Reply
:icon3pic:
3pic Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
:w00t: a cheer for your investigations... This shows what a bunch of dedicated people can do when they put themselves to it. Well worded out, good facts and i will spread a link to your journal whenever the occasion allows for it.

Thanks again, and... keep it up.
Reply
:icon197six:
197six Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Hobbyist Photographer
Phwoaaaaar! No way - wtg on the diggin in dusty archives. Thanksf or all the effort.

I am feeling a fresh rush of moral indignation!
Reply
:icondavidsondered:
DavidSondered Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Professional Digital Artist
Also, found this...
Spyed reffers to himself in his log as `Angelo @ DeviantART . com


where matteo and Jark where both $'ed...

further support...n'est pas?
Reply
:icondavidsondered:
DavidSondered Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005  Professional Digital Artist
Regarding the fact that Dmusic and DevArt was connected closely...you are absolutely correct.
Found THIS archived webpage...look at the bottom of the "logged in Deviants" list...

[link]


"41 Deviants Currently Logged In!"
[snip till end of list]


"37 Deviant Art Users | 4 DMusic Users"


So you where right.
Reply
:iconxam:
xam Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005
thank you.
Reply
:iconbbcversus:
BBCVersus Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2005   Photographer
Great job...I will make sure that many ppls willl read it.....


ANd one more thing.... Spyed didnt replay to this... How's that? Haha....he didnt saw it? Neaa.....=D
Reply
:iconhypknotic:
hypknotic Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2005
Hi. A lot of comments on this journal, but I didn't see this in the journal entry so maybe no one else has noticed.

Since you have so many dates and so much research I thought I'd point out a seeming inconsistency.

If one scrolls to the bottom of $spyed's friends list he/she will see that `paroxysm joined the list Aug 6, 2000. A year and a half before °jark

OK, so what...but...

If one looks at `paroxysm's page, his account was not created until Aug 16, 2000--ten days after he started watching $spyed

How can this be?
Reply
:iconkoishii-kitty:
koishii-kitty Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2005
oh interesting! i heard that something about his page views of joining date had been changed. how intruiging.
Reply
:iconjustthorne:
justthorne Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2005   Photographer
Found you thanks for °euphoria, and now you'll be found thanks to my latest journal. :nod:

Extraordinary work you've done here. :wow:

You oughta be a legal assistant. ;)

People like you make me feel like we're gonna win this thing. :eyes:

:thumbsup:
Reply
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